Are they correct?

[Sidcar]

Hi folks,
I've been out enjoying my recently aquired 1959 Golden Flash outfit, now I've had the mag and the rear wheel rebuilt.
It's going very well (asking for trouble saying that) and what's more it's fun. However a rivit counter of my aquaintance keeps saying the hubs are wrong (they're Ariel) and the headlamp is incorrect. It doesn't really bother me either way, they're good brakes and on an outfit that's what counts, but if he's wrong I would derive a small amount of pleasure in telling him so (it would at least shut him up, maybe).
Can anyone tell me if he's right.

Sid

[Rocket Racer]

The pretty alloy ariel type hubs were fitted to the 56 & 57 A10's and are a lovely hub, probably not cheap to manufacture, but from 58 and certainly by 59 all the A10's were using "improved" (cheaper to manufacture) iron hubs.
I have a number of them (the later iron hubs) in the shed...but very heavy so probably not worth sending from NZ!

Unless your bike is earlier than 59 technically the hubs are not original for that year.
Tim

[Sidcar]

I shan't bother changing them, would it have been worth the effort of swapping them on in the first place?
I suppose it could be one of the last Ariel hub models registered late.
Can you tell me if the head lamp is kosher?

Sid

[Rocket Racer]

Good call, headlight looks fine...in fact the rig is lovely!
How does it steer? I understand there where rumours that BSA did sell special triple clamps for sidecar use with less trail, quite possibly an old wives tale but stock trail does make for heavy steering.
On my track rig we made new sliders with a leading axle to cut trail and I also run 16" rims so steering is light as.
I'm about to put a watsonian avon on my plunger B33 road bike.
Nothing like having a bit on the side

[Sidcar]

It handles well but the steering is heavy. The sidecar mountings are amazingly rigid compared to my 1930 Sloper outfit. My problem at the moment is the gear change, 1 up- 3 down. My other machines are Left foot 1 down - 4 up.  Right foot 1 down - 3 up and right hand change! Trying to remember which foot and which way is, at the moment a nightmare. I was swinging through a set of S bends last Sunday. After the right I moved out to the centre of the road ready for the left and changed down to get the power on to accelerate round..... only I moved the lever the wrong way so instead on entering the bend 10 mph slower and under power I rolled in too fast in too higher gear! I got round in three hops of the sidecar wheel (might put a bit of ballast in the chair in future), just shaving the opposite kerb, fortunatley there was nothing coming the other way.
I have also tried to put the brake pedal into top nearly breaking my toe.
I used to race a BSA outfit in the early seventies, not that you'd know it now.

Sid

[muskrat]

G'day Sid,
              nice outfit, well done.
Re the hubs, I think that the PO has either modified or changed the swing arm as well, as the axle holes are different sizes left to right.
The brake shoes are 7" X 1 1/2" Pt# 42-5620 front and back. The '59 are front 8" X 1 3/8", rear 7" X 1 1/8". I love the Ariel hubs on my cafe, a lot lighter and stop real well. Easy to set up with the adjuster.
Cheers

[Triton Thrasher]

I ask the rivet people about their own bike (yes there are weirdos who will tell you the tank on a Triton is "wrong").  Usually they have no bike, or a Fazer or something, but "Used to have a.. blah blah blah..."

Yeah we all used to do great things.

[Sidcar]

The brake adjusters on these hubs are the best I've seen on a bike. Not that the previous owner used them they were seized solid. After freeing off and adjusting the rear one I had to move the lever round to get the cable on. What sort of a person moves a brake lever rather than free off the adjuster??

Sid

[Sidcar]

Congratulate me!
I've finally managed to upload a picture onto my profile. Another small step for man.

Sid

[LJ.]

I'm about to put a watsonian avon on my plunger B33 road bike.

Rocket Racer... This surprises me as my plunger B33 (1953) does not have any sidecar loop lugs on the frame I assume yours does? My A7 plunger frame (1949) has the loops though. I'm in the mind thinking that the B33 was  not intended for sidecar work as this was left to the M33, same 500cc single engine but much stronger 'M' seris frame.

My A7 plunger has the Watsonian Avon side car as well, makes a nice outfit.

[trevinoz]

Sid,
          I have just counted some rivets and find that your fuel tank is pre 1958 so the obvious question is, is your frame EA7 or FA7?
Good looking bike and it's yours so bugger the critics!
   Trev.

[Sidcar]

According to the registration document the frame is FA7 and the engine DA10 but I'll check this on the bike tomorrow.
Ea or FA it will still have a loverly crisp sound as you accelerate up the road.

[Rocket Racer]

I'm about to put a watsonian avon on my plunger B33 road bike.

Rocket Racer... This surprises me as my plunger B33 (1953) does not have any sidecar loop lugs on the frame I assume yours does? My A7 plunger frame (1949) has the loops though. I'm in the mind thinking that the B33 was  not intended for sidecar work as this was left to the M33, same 500cc single engine but much stronger 'M' seris frame.

My A7 plunger has the Watsonian Avon side car as well, makes a nice outfit.

The lack of side car lugs on the plunger B series is but a minor inconvenience, I have a very clever engineer. While the B33 frame isnt as heavy as the M33 frame, its hauled a chair in its earlier life and I know of another one doing the same extremely well.

[Beezageezauk]

Re:- B33 Plunger Models.

I know that we're deviating from the thread but I think that this is worth mentioning.

Because the B31 and B33 plungers didn't have a full looped/cradle frame (it stopped at the front of the engine and started again at the back of the gearbox) BSA suggested that these models were unsuitable for sidecar work as the engine and gearbox would take too much stress and strain.  Hence...no sidecar lugs on the B series frame.  So in order to satisfy customer needs for an overhead valve single cylinder sidecar hauler the company put the B33 engine into an M series frame and called it the M33.

BSA actually advertised the M33 as being for the "Sporting Sidecarist".

Beezageezauk.

[LJ.]

Thanks for clearing that up Ray... It makes perfect sense now you mention it.

Apologise to Sid for my hacking his thread.

[Sidcar]

Anyone talking about sidecars is more than welcome on any thread of mine.
I've checked my frame number the pre-fix is definitely FA7 and the engine DA10.

Sid

An Avon would would be more suitable for my A10, this Squire looks a shade to modern.

[Rocket Racer]

Re:- B33 Plunger Models.

I know that we're deviating from the thread but I think that this is worth mentioning.

Because the B31 and B33 plungers didn't have a full looped/cradle frame (it stopped at the front of the engine and started again at the back of the gearbox) BSA suggested that these models were unsuitable for sidecar work as the engine and gearbox would take too much stress and strain.  Hence...no sidecar lugs on the B series frame.  So in order to satisfy customer needs for an overhead valve single cylinder sidecar hauler the company put the B33 engine into an M series frame and called it the M33.

BSA actually advertised the M33 as being for the "Sporting Sidecarist".

Beezageezauk.

Nothing wrong with the plunger B33 for side car work apart from the plungers and forks, both of which struggle with the side loads. Funnily enough the M and A plunger frames have the same limitations.
Yes I know my bike wasnt sold specifically for sidecar use (neither were the early swing arm frames), but its done so for a lot of its life and missing a small amount of bottom frame rail makes no real difference. That and as its been in my shed for over 25 years isnt going to have a frame swap or be flogged off. Just needs less trail, the curse of all solo's when hitched up.
Sidecars

[LJ.]

Probably no problem as you say RR, the main thing is being aware of limitations. I put girder forks on my 49 A7 which is wrong I know but... they look good and they seem to handle nicely, gives that much more vintage look and feel. Someone mentioned to me that I stand to wreck the forks with using a sidecar especially if poorly set up and heavily loaded, so with that in mind I grease up the links more often and take extra care while riding. Any chance of a picture of your Avon car?

[Rocket Racer]

Probably no problem as you say RR, the main thing is being aware of limitations. I put girder forks on my 49 A7 which is wrong I know but... they look good and they seem to handle nicely, gives that much more vintage look and feel. Someone mentioned to me that I stand to wreck the forks with using a sidecar especially if poorly set up and heavily loaded, so with that in mind I grease up the links more often and take extra care while riding. Any chance of a picture of your Avon car?

Nothing fancy as yet, still a work in progress, has a BSA hub centre, but missing the boot handle.
I know what you mean about girder rigids being pretty. A lot of prewar bikes pulled heavy chairs and had girders. The only issue would be that typically the frames may run slightly different rake angles. A lot of people dont really understand chairs, I must see if I can find a picture I've got showing a rig racing that has impressive fork flex!

please forgive the mess in the shed

Lets see a pic of the girder 47 please!

[LJ.]

No such thing as an 'untidy' shed! Only the wives & girlfriends think that. (wags?)  

There are some photos of the girder A7 somewhere here, just had a look and realised just how large the data is getting now. Here's a few from my photobucket...

Just need to click the pic to enlarge it







Your right about people not really understanding sidecars I find it a continuous learning curve. Looks like your chair is the Avon deluxe type as it has the very useful boot lid and I believe yours might be just slightly longer.