Iced Carb remedy? (Pictured Story)

[LJ.]

Up early and out at 8am for the Newark and Notts autojumble which was not to be!

I was prepared for temperatures of above 35 thousand feet in my flying gear and boy I was warm as toast all day long apart from toe ends and finger ends. The fairing and legshields on the Red A10 were a real boon on a day like today...



The roads were really nasty and white just about right across on even the busiest roads in South Lincolnshire. I was riding along wondering if it is safe to ride on the wheel tracks of other cars or the white centre where road is often a bit more unworn and grippy but white frosted. What do you think?

The main problem however turned out to be a frosting up carburettor, the outside of carb was icing up even after stopping and allowing to thaw for five mins. I found that the throttle slide was sticking open at 40mph, not good as changing gear made the back wheel slip, so a complete new approach to clutching was called for...



So how do you combat this problem? Apart from lagging the throttle cable and tieing a hot water bottle around carb, I found that a stop every four or five miles was called for, it soon thawed with engine heat but there was not much heat emitted from the engine on a  morning like today!



I soon... well eventually got to the autojumble place but found it to be cancelled, so, a turn round after a bacon sarnie and coffee was all that I could do but the morning was warming up nicely so I decided to take the long way home. Taking in scenery and stopping at railway crossings I noticed this old Great Northern Railway signal box with its modern double glazing... Bet the guy in there was cozy!



I also like looking over old airdromes and passing Barkstone heath I'd always wanted to go back lanes to find the remains of an old Canberra, and there she lies...



On my 'long way back home trip' I come across the 'Mother' of all pot holes! This was an abyss! Never seen anything as bad as this one, came round the corner and there it lay smiling at me!





But I got round it okay, just need to make a report about it on that pot hole report website thingy. Got home safe to give the old bike a good wash down of collected salt. In all... A brilliant day out!

So your comments please...

1/ How do you deal with frosted up carbs?
2/ Where is the safest part of a frozen road?

Note: Pictures are of a low resolution and hosted on Photobucket to make downloading quicker to your computer... 

[bsa- bill]

Question one - modesty forbids me to answer
Question two - the bit underneath any of the seats on the next bus to come along

Jokes aside - well done for braving elements and pot holes

All the best - Bill

[trevinoz]

Frosted up carby?
Ice on roads?
Never heard of it.
Trev.

[Brian]

I got to hand it to you LJ, your dedicated. I dont know how you do it, riding in those conditions. When it gets down to 10 degrees C over here I start complaining ! Actually I start complaining well before then, I dont like the cold.

I went for a ride yesterday, it was 35 C, just right.

[rocket man]

i think the safest thing to do is dont go out when its frosty

[a10gf]

  LJ, brave feat, nice story. And looks like you are going to board one of these...


As for the safest parts of an icy road ? None, of course!
The carb throttle icing, never experienced it, but I'd guess trying car lock anti-icing spray or 5w50 oil would improve matters quite a lot. Maybe in the cable as well.

[MG]

LJ - my highest regard, you are really weather-proof

about the icing carb: what about deflector plates that guide part of the warm air from the cylinder to the carb (and into it's inlet/air filter, perhaps)? Could be fixed to the rocker box studs, maybe.

[MG]

I just remembered that years ago an old mechanic told me that mixing isopropyl alcohol to the fuel (50cc of alc. to 10l of fuel) would bind the water in the fuel and prevent it from condensing and therefore icing the carb or injector nozzles.
This once prooved very helpful when I unintentionally dropped some snow in the tank of the car while refuelling. After the car was parked outside it would not start in the morning, so I put it into the garage for a few hours to melt the water in the injectors and poured some isopropanol in the tank. That solved the problem.
Pure ethanol should work, too.

Cheers, Markus

[tombeau]

We get fuel additive here, you buy it at the petrol station and pour a bit in. I'll have a look and see what it says on the bottle.

Cheers,
Iain

[MG]

I know this stuff from Norway, it's generally called "Kondensfjerner" (condensate remover???, help me out, Iain  ).
I got no idea what it really is, but I could imagine that the main component is either isopropanol or ethanol.

[bsa- bill]

available on the ever popular Ebay - item number 130332176067

uses listed as                   
Amazing Glass Cleaner for Smear free windows             
Disinfectant and Cleaning  Agent for Clean Rooms / Food Preparation Areas
Antiseptic and Anti-Bacteria Agent                   
General Cleaning Solution                   
Additiive for Screen Wash                   
General Laboratory Use                   
Ideal for cleaning CD's, records, DVD's                
Stain Remover                   
And Many Other Uses we don’t even know about    ( maybe we could add -Amal carb de-icer)    

All the best - Bill      
 

[tombeau]

"Petrol de-icer"
Nothing on the bottles but got this info about "Masinol" from a .pdf on their website.

http://www.lasol.fi/tuotteet/Masinol.html

It gives percentages too, but you get the idea.

Etanoli
isopropanoli
Metyylietyyliketoni
Metyyli-isobutyyliketoni

Cheers,
Iain

[flashblack]

My japanese bike suffered the same problem, and i bought a product called "PRO FST", which cured the problem. Below is a link to the stuff:
http://www.silkoleneoil.com/techtip7.htm
 

[MG]

****smart-arse mode on****

Metyylietyyliketoni = Butanone: used as denaturing agent for alcohols, improves knock-resistance of fuels
Metyyli-isobutyyliketoni = Methyl isobutyl ketone (MIBK): no idea what this is for. Wiki says it is a derivative of Acetone which is a denaturation agent and used in some countries to improve the octane number of fuels too. Maybe has the same effect?

****smart-arse mode off****

But I guess the hint with Ethanol and Isopropanol is not that bad...

[Triton Thrasher]

Has anyone suggested removing the Tufnol spacer?

[MG]

C'mon, don't be so damn logical!   

[a10gf]

MG, correct about the "Kondensfjerner". Used in periods of frequent temperature changes, which may produce water condensation in the tank. AFAIK, this alcohol based additive breaks down water into much finer molecules and 'mix' it with the fuel into something the carb\injection does not mind too much, thus getting water out of the tank and fuel system. Seems to me the now common use of plastic material tanks on cars has lessened the need for this.

The additive will help starting\carburation\combustion, but not any frozen\sticking carb throttle.

Erling

[MG]

a10gf, the problem is the vaporisation of the fuel in the carb, which absorbs energy from the surrounding atmosphere, therefore cooling the carb further down and causing the water to condensate and finally freeze. If the water is bonded in the fuel it will not condensate and therefore simply not freeze and ice the carb. That was the mechanism I had in mind.
The carb or injection systems can deal with rather large amounts of water in the fuel, the problem that occurs are the ice crystals blocking nozzles, slides, etc.

[LJ.]

Thanks for the replies lads... although the problem wont be occurring too many times on the A10 as I'm using my M21 more so in the conditions due to the salts on the road, but an interesting problem never the less.

I think I'd prefer to go along with an external remedy rather than additives to the fuel, the unleaded fuel is crappy enough as it is. Triton Thrasher makes a good comment in removing the tufnel spacer and if the A10 was my daily transport I'd remove it until summer comes around. I wonder how they coped with icing on the carbs during the sixties? maybe most people had only short journeys to and from work then?

In a couple of days from now I'll be setting off on my journey to the Dragon Rally, to be held in North Wales. I'm wondering if I'll be getting icing problems on my M21, although I doubt it somehow as its a much hotter running engine, but, the carb is in the airflow and not directly behind the engine, it also has a thicker tufnel spacer. But then again I'm going to be stopping more often as there is no handlebar fairing so I'm going to be colder while riding. A full report back will be in mind on my return. Thanks again for suggestions.

[bsa- bill]

Neither my 61 or 59 A10 have tufnol spacers, It's not listed in my spares book either unless part No 65 - 232 is it, but is listed as a gasket and apparently uses two.
Strangely these are shown as fitted between the drip shield and the carb, hardly required I would have thought with an o ring in monoblock, also there are no A10  gaskets shown between the dripshield and the head only for A7 and A10 S/R.
Misprint in my spares book maybe,
Also I note different part numbers for Dripshields for Alloy heads and cast heads.
Sorry this is getting away from LJs BirdsEye carb

All the best - Bill