Electric Starter Motor for A7 & A10 Bikes.

[LJ.]

Well it's been discussed briefly on a couple of other forums, so its time it was discussed here. What do you guys think to the idea of an electric starter on our A7 & A10s?

I was lucky enough to meet Steve two or three weeks ago at the BSAOC Wiltshire branch camp. I must say that I was impressed with his design although before hand and from reading another forum I was a bit sceptical.

There was nothing much to see when peering underneath his bike as the starter was very discreetly hidden away. There is no doubt after my looking over this, that this will be a winner to those who wish to keep riding these bikes well into older age. Take a look at his well made YouTube video, it says it all really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuvKy9l75u4

[raymo]

seen some pic of the one Pearson has installed on Goldies.. looks quite neat as its a small chain to the front sprocket on the primary drive ( must have some sort of sprag clutch )

 So the bike can be started in gear.. quite useful off road....

A10s are  is quite easy to start in any case .. But I find the E start most usefull when two up and with luggage 

 would like to make it my self rather than buying a  kit as they are quite dear.. any one got detailed plans?

ray

[Beezageezauk]

Please!!  Don't compare this with the Pearson starter.  Steve's has no chain or moving parts once the starting process is complete.  They will also be available for the B31, B33 and Goldies and won't even need the use of a decompressor when starting these models.

The kickstart mechanism is also retained with Steve's method so you will have the best of both worlds.

As LJ stated, this is sooooooo neat and tidy and I had a job trying to find the starter motor on Steve's bike.

Beezageezauk.

[alanp]

Is it a one off project for him or does he intend to sell the conversion? If available, where can we get pricing and installation information?  Is it available as a kit or does he have to install it? Etc Etc Etc. I'm really interested especially since my restoration work on the A10 is in it's initial stage (The 'look at all these bits spread around the garage floor that need work or replacement' stage!) and incorporating it would be less hassle than on a completed bike. Anyone with contact information please?

[LJ.]

Alan... Steve does have a website... www.startyourbsa.com The project is in its very early stages and I think from reading the website, he needs to fit the kit himself for the first few customers and until he is 100% sure of the product he is selling. Have a read of the website its very informative!

[Richard]

I have given Steve a firm order for one to be fitted on my S/R and he informed me I would be No. 12.
I also asked Steve about having it fitted to a bike with a belt primary drive and he thinks that he has that covered as well.
A65,s are in the pipeline as well and even plungers are going to be looked at
The cost i beleive will be about £800 a small price to pay for something that will enable one to ride well into old age when legs and hips are not at there strongest.
Richard

[fido]

Personally, if I could not cope with the kickstart I would trade in the BSA for a more modern bike like the Hinckley Bonnie. Some modifications like uprated brakes, tyres and lighting do make sense, to cope with present day traffic conditions but to me the starting procedures are part of what makes our bikes different and special. I suppose I'm a bit perverse though, when I had the Honda XBR500 I rarely bothered with the electric start as it was more satisfying to use the kickstart. My India Enfield has a Mikuni type carb with no tickler and it always feels wrong somehow, not having to tickle the carb. I free off the clutch before starting, using the kickstart. I suppose this would still be required if an electric start was fitted.

[Beezageezauk]

Ok....so what do we do with our bikes when we are too old to start them??

Put them in the back of the shed and let them rot??

Try to sell them to the younger generation who don't appear to have much of an interest in them anyway??

Break them and try to sell them as spares to those who decide to keep their own but can't start them??

Simply scrap them??

I suppose that there are other alternatives...like trading in them in for a modern bike but......

I would rather go for an electric start in order for me to persue my interest for as long as I possibly could!!

What do other members think??

Beezageezauk.

[G/F DAVE]

Would be interesting to know how many members own a A10 with a alternator I;E ex police bike. As  you can see Steve,s bike is a alternator type. Personally  I wouldnt  rely on a dynamo to charge the battery needed to power a electric starter (they can hardly produce enough power for a decent halogen lamp regardless of 6v-12v or mrc2 / solid state regulators.The dynamo fitted to A7/A10 has always been its own downfall we all know A7/A10s are bloody nice bikes, but what a stupid design to mount and drive lucas dynamos on A series BSA,s compared to other makes/models using same type lucas dynamo ( apart from ajs/matchless singles). This has always been one of most hated jobs when working on my Goldflash (removing & replacing dynamo). I  know some of you are lucky regarding using halogen lights/solid state regulators, but you cant deny they will never beat a good working alternator. Dave

[fido]

Thats right, where do you stop? You want an electric start but then you are expecting too much of the dynamo so you have to make alternative charging arrangements.You also need a bigger battery so you really need to uprate the wiring. The normal kill type button could be used to operate a starter solenoid but they are not very well made so it would be best to go for a modern combined twistgrip / switch unit. You don't want people messing about pressing the starter button when you leave the bike parked so you need to fit some kind of ignition switch....... You end up with so many modern bits that you might as well have bought a modern bike.

[Richard]

Fido
Why so negative?
I have converted my electrics to 12volt some time ago and have a belt drive on the dynamo, I have a 11 amp hour battery in the usual place I have indicators which are 21watt lamps although I could convert them to led's I have an led rear lamp and a 23 watt pilot light for town use at night and a 40/35 watt headlight for out of town riding and have not had any charging problems so far. The reason I have indicators is for safer riding as I ride this bike more than I ride my modern Hinckley T100 (2003). I have only 5700 miles on the Triumph because I prefer to ride the A10 s/r. I already have a Paul Goff light switch on the bars because of the indicators and as for putting a hidden switch or key switch to isolate the starter that is minor and would not necessarily be seen, the same as the starter, battery etc.
I can start the bike with the kick start and am probably fitter than most 60 year olds but I want the starter on it for no other reason than wanting to improve my bike, I have just had the fork stanchions and seals with the progressive springs delivered and already have the Dow two way damping rods standing by, this will also be an improvement, yet if and when you see my bike it will still be a good looking BSA a10 and probably more desirable to many as there can be no excuse that it can't be started and by the way I have a mikuni fitted and I have no guilt trips about not wasting fuel and staining the drip plate all the time .
There is also an Alton alternator that will fit where the dynamo is and let’s not forget the belt drive I will want to fit at a later date.
This is not a dig at anyone but I have written all this to show that not all of us are purists but still enjoy like most on here, owning, riding, and tinkering/rebuilding BSA's so we should be a bit more positive when things come along to prolong our enjoyment and improve the safety of our old bikes in today’s world.
I rest my case
Richard 

[S.R.McFarlane]

Hi
Well the reason I put hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours figuring out and designing this starter was from requests from numerous people over the years to do one. I have heard of so many people selling there bikes because the cant start them any more, and buying scooters ect instead because they can still ride and want to. If you have had your BSA for many years and enjoy riding it I am just giving people the opportunity to keep riding a bike they love and have been attached to.  While working on it I have had allot of personal satisfaction in successfully completing the task, even if no one wanted one, I felt satisfied with my design and pleased with what I had achieved. In addition, since I have finished it, all the complimentary comments people have said to me have been quite flattering. Thank you all!!

Steve
  

[Triton Thrasher]

Anyone know what the weight penalty is?

There's probably a demand from owners of other marques of old bike too.

[manosound]

Well, there are varyng degrees of leg strength and leg usefulness at any age and, particularly, with advancing age. I am 61 and, thankfully, even if it takes several kicks, I still have the wherewithall to apply the force. It would seem that a person who could still give three or four good kicks on a well-tuned engine with a healthy mag may have a better chance of starting the bike than the electric starter (before the battery dies) on a poorly tuned bike that, maybe, has a sick mag.  I guess my point is, if you think you need an electric starter because you can't do all the kicking reps it takes to get started, perhaps a tune-up and a mag rebuild is a better choice.  For those who can no longer do any reps, we can be thankful to Steve for giving our mates the option to stay in the game.  (Steve, it is clearly an excellent piece of engineering.)

Just for curiosity, I would like to know what the age is of the oldest person here, or known by those here (feel free to say "a bloke I know" even if it's you), that can still kick start an A7 or A10.  

Richard L.

[a10gf]

And a welcome to the forum, Steve.
e

[Brian]

My my, hasn't this one caused some discussion !

Firstly, welcome to the forum Steve.

Now to the question of wether an electric start is good or bad. I am not in favour of modifying these bikes unless absolutely necessary, I believe that riding them as they were is what owning an old bike is all about. If you want modern carbies etc then buy a modern bike. I am in favour of sensible mods that are unseen and make our bikes easier to live with eg. the DVR2.

However, if I ever get to the point that the only reason I can no longer ride my A10 is because I can not kick it over then I would be the first to fit one of these electric legs.

As to the capability of the dynamo to run the system I can not see any problem. I am no electrical expert but a sound dynamo with a properly working CVC unit would be easily capable of keeping the battery charged. I dont see how a electric start is going to stress the system, it only has to turn over a relitively (by modern standards) low compression motor of 325cc.

Just my thoughts.................

[LJ.]

I think we’ll all agree in common that a classic bike requires a fair old amount of attention to keep them running at their best, and the most important thing, is that we continue to ‘enjoy’ doing the necessary maintenance demanded. A classic bike in excellent fettle should be very easy to start, especially if it has low compression pistons. When it starts easily you know it’s a happy runner, if you need to whirl the starter over a few times to run the bike then it cant be as happy as one that has had a Human leg kick, to get it going.

For me, the kick starting will always be that magical moment, giving that exciting feeling of ‘will it or wont it’ and how many kicks will she want from me today? (The A7, A10 is very much a sexy Lady!) An electric starter seems to take away all that, it seems to take away that special part of the relationship with the bike, although Steve’s device still allows the option to kick if you want to. Somehow I feel this might be cheating a little But! don’t get me wrong, I am fully aware that there are guys around who’s circumstances are very much different to mine, and I’m very pleased that this option is available to them.

The idea of an electric start is indeed attractive and I think I would have one primarily to restart if I had a pillion and a fully loaded bike with camping gear and I had stalled at traffic lights. Sometimes you need to put aside the romantic moments and get a move on.

Apart from reaching old age and needing an electric starter I think a whole lot of other situations ought to be thought of, for instant, would I still be able to pull the bike onto it’s centre stand? Would I still be strong enough to handle such a heavy bike and manoeuvre it around in small spaces? General health? Arthritis? Reflexes? etc.

Personally, I think that when my kicking days expire then I’ll hang up my helmet, boots and gloves and call it a day. Bet the girls’ll still remain in my shed though!

[broom34]

Hi Richard
               I'm all for an easy life but you must keep exercising your right leg, thats what your right legs for a BSA A10 kick starter,there's only one problem with the kick starter as you get older your right leg gets bigger
 I know I'm coming on 76 and still kicking,but joking apart I must say Steve done a wonderful job with the electric starter good luck Steve.

Richard

[LJ.]

I'm coming on 76 and still kicking

Blimey! Now this puts me to shame after what I put in my last post, heck I'm only 49! However Richard, (Broom34) I dont think you hold the record for the oldest A10 rider as there is a chap up Cumbia way who is well into his eighties, I think he is known as Jon the one. Perhaps someone could put me right without spoiling the very interesting thread we have here. 

[fido]

I'm not trying to convert anyone to my point of view but the forum is here so that we can express our opinions. I have similar discussions with the Enfield riders. A lot of them spend hundreds of pounds fitting go faster bits and I always wonder why they bought a slow bike in the first place. I can well understand people wanting electric start, indicators, alternators, electronic ignition etc but the choice of bikes available with all that stuff is mind boggling.